Jury Transcript and FBI Document Requests
72 linesUNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 20 CR 330 (AJN) GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. Jury Trial ------------------------------x New York, N.Y. December 21, 2021 10:05 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge APPEARANCES DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- COHEN & GRESSER BY: CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman
(Trial resumed; jury not present)
JUDGE NATHAN: We have a note. This will be marked as Court Exhibit 6. We would like the transcripts testimony of Jane, Annie, and Carolyn. Do you have those prepared, counsel?
MS. COMEY: I believe both sides had proposed redactions. We just need to compare them and then they'll be ready to send back; so it should be pretty quick, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. So my proposal is you come to agreement on that, give Ms. Williams what you agree to. She will give it to the CSO to bring them back without bringing them to the court.
MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, are you going to inform them that we just need a few minutes? I don't want them to think that it's coming right now. We need like five or ten minutes.
JUDGE NATHAN: I can send a note saying we're preparing the transcripts; they'll be in shortly.
MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you.
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor.
(Recess pending verdict)
JUDGE NATHAN: I have a note which I'll mark as Court Exhibit 7. We would like the FBI deposition, 3505-005, referred to by the defense during the cross-examination of Carolyn. Proposals for how to respond.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I believe a note saying that that document is not in evidence would be an appropriate response.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, I think since there was impeachment from the document -- I agree it's not a deposition, and I agree that the document is not in evidence. But there is 613 impeachment from that document. I think the Court -- and Ms. Sternheim tells me what I was about to say, which is good; we're consistent. I think something like, you know, You have the evidence and testimony relating to 3505-005. That's it. I don't think that there should be any further discussion about what is or is not in evidence.
JUDGE NATHAN: How about "all admitted exhibits are before you."
MS. COMEY: I think that's fine, your Honor.
MR. PAGLIUCA: The problem, your Honor, is that there's testimony about it.
JUDGE NATHAN: You lost your mic.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Sorry. There's testimony about it.
JUDGE NATHAN: It's true they've not asked for that though.
MR. PAGLIUCA: They do have the transcript where it's referred to. I think a more limited answer is something along the lines of: You have the admitted evidence relating to 3505-5. Something like that.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I think it's important to clarify for the jury that the particular document they requested is not in evidence; but that they may consider what they already have in the transcript and what they already have in the exhibits.
JUDGE NATHAN: That sounds pretty similar.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Which is what I just said without saying the document is not in evidence. Because the testimony about the document is in evidence. I don't think I'm splitting hairs here. I think the evidence is what it is.
JUDGE NATHAN: How about then: You have all admitted exhibits, period. Because it's directly responsive to the question without assuming further questions.
MR. PAGLIUCA: I think what we're struggling with is the difference between the testimony and the specific document. I think it diminishes the testimony by inferring that somehow it's not evidence before the jury.
JUDGE NATHAN: They are asking for the document, I presume in part because they have the testimony in front of them.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Right. Which I'm happy to give them the 35 --
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, what about "3505-005 is not an admitted exhibit."
MR. PAGLIUCA: If the Court is considering that, I think there needs to be a second sentence, which is, "The testimony about 3505-005 has been provided in the transcript."
MS. COMEY: That's redundant, your Honor. They know that; that's why they are asking the question. So I don't think it's necessary.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Well, it can't really hurt if it's redundant, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: That's true. I'm just writing it out. "3505-005 is not an admitted exhibit. The testimony regarding 3505-005 is in the transcript you have regarding Carolyn's testimony."
MR. PAGLIUCA: That's fine with us, your Honor.
MS. COMEY: Fine with us, your Honor. Thank you.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. I'm happy to bring them out and do it orally or send in a note for efficiency.
MS. COMEY: I think sending in a note will save time, your Honor, and makes sense.
MR. PAGLIUCA: We agree.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. So let me just be clear. I'm going to say: I received your note regarding -- I'll just say regarding 3505-005. 3505-005 is not an admitted exhibit. The testimony regarding 3505-005 is in the transcript you have regarding Carolyn's testimony. Agreed?
MS. COMEY: Yes. Thank you, your Honor.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Agreed.
JUDGE NATHAN: Thank you. All right. I will do that. And we'll wait to hear further.
(Recess pending verdict)
JUDGE NATHAN: I'm told that you requested I return.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes. Thank you, your Honor. After the Court left and I thought about it, there's other testimony regarding this exhibit, specifically from Special Agent Jason Richards. We all can't agree on what was in the note, and it may be important for us to hear exactly what was in the note again before we have some consensus on this.
MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, may we receive copies of the court exhibits please?
JUDGE NATHAN: You mean the notes?
MS. STERNHEIM: Yes.
JUDGE NATHAN: They need to be redacted because the foreperson has signed their name.
MS. STERNHEIM: Understood.
MR. PAGLIUCA: My request is going to be that in addition to the name Carolyn, we add "and the testimony of Special Agent Jason Richards," assuming that's appropriately responsive to the question.
JUDGE NATHAN: I don't think it is, remembering fondly when I said "period."
MR. PAGLIUCA: I understand, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: "We would like the FBI deposition 3505-005 referred to by the defense during the cross-examination of Carolyn."
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I don't see how Agent Richards' testimony is in any way responsive to that note. I think the response that the Court already gave is fully responsive.
JUDGE NATHAN: It is.
MR. PAGLIUCA: My request stands, your Honor, we add Special Agent Jason Richards to that.
JUDGE NATHAN: Understood. Overruled. Because it's not what they've asked for. But we can be prepared, should they follow up with that request.
MR. PAGLIUCA: We have the transcript here, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: I am reading the notes verbatim, but I will work on redacting the foreperson's name so they can be made public.
MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you.
JUDGE NATHAN: Actually, counsel are aware of the identity of the jurors; so I'm comfortable with counsel seeing the note. And then I'll redact for purposes of public exhibit.
MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, the primary reason is so that we can, as the parties, look at it and analyze it and, when you come down, be prepared to make the arguments. It has nothing to do with using it for any other purpose.
JUDGE NATHAN: No, I understand. Okay. So do you need these now or do you want --
MS. STERNHEIM: We'd like to have copies.
JUDGE NATHAN: Of course.
MS. STERNHEIM: But it's not as immediate.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. I will figure out who knows how to do a redaction.
MS. MENNINGER: We're pretty good at it.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, it is true that the parties know the names of the jurors; so if the Court wanted to send an electronic copy of the note to the parties, the parties could redact it and then send a redacted version back to the Court.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. We'll do that. Thank you.
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor.
(Recess pending verdict)