Juror Matters and Trial Administration
54 linesUNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v. 20 CR 330 (AJN) GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. Jury Trial ------------------------------x New York, N.Y. November 30, 2021 8:50 a.m. Before: HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge APPEARANCES DAMIAN WILLIAMS United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: MAURENE COMEY ALISON MOE LARA POMERANTZ ANDREW ROHRBACH Assistant United States Attorneys HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN Attorneys for Defendant BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL LAURA A. MENNINGER -and- BOBBI C. STERNHEIM -and- RENATO STABILE Also Present: Amanda Young, FBI Paul Byrne, NYPD Sunny Drescher, Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office Ann Lundberg, Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman
(Jury not present)
JUDGE NATHAN: Looks like we have everybody. Matters to take up, counsel.
MS. COMEY: Nothing from the government, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: Nothing, your Honor, but note we have put the folders under the chairs as we agreed yesterday.
JUDGE NATHAN: And the government has seen -- well, I guess you didn't see them, but you are aware of them?
MS. COMEY: We have seen the outside of the folders, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Mr. Everdell, there are two folders.
MR. EVERDELL: There is one folder with two documents.
JUDGE NATHAN: One folder with two documents. And then, as we discussed, he'll direct us as necessary to make sure everybody can follow along. I think the only thing I wanted to raise is that, assuming the timing works out, I would like to speak with the juror who had the trip planned, with the court reporter present, of course, to see if there is additional information about the ability to change that plan to make sure it's not weighing on my mind. Without objection to that?
MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: So if they're here a little on the early side, I'll do that before, otherwise I'll do it at the break.
MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, I have an issue I would prefer to raise at sidebar very quickly.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay.
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(In open court)
JUDGE NATHAN: I'll note I received a report from the district executive office that, once again, today, everyone who's appearing to watch the trial is being accommodated, either in this court or in the overflow courtrooms. There are empty seats available for everybody who wishes to observe the public trial. With that, anything else before we wait for the jurors?
MS. COMEY: No, thank you, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Thank you so much.
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(In open court)
JUDGE NATHAN: I spoke to the juror with the travel plans and the information is that dates can't be changed and they can't cancel and it would be of some significant hardship. The juror is, I think, more concerned about the spouse's reaction. At one point, they did say, "If I have to proceed, I can. I understand." On the other hand, they mentioned some level of distraction and concern. So, I'll hear your suggestion.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, I understood that the Court was going to -- there were two options the Court was considering. One was seeing if the juror could change plans, and if that didn't work, the Court was considering breaking for the juror's anticipated vacation. That's what I understood the Court to say. If the juror can't change the plans, our preference would be, not frankly that we want to delay the trial, but my preference would be to keep the juror and accommodate the juror's travel plans, your Honor.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government's preference would be to keep the trial moving, keep the trial days as scheduled, and excuse the juror if those days become necessary for this case.
JUDGE NATHAN: Just to be clear about what we're talking about. So given the holiday, we're not going to sit the 23rd or the 24th, and it's the weekend, Christmas weekend, 25th, 26th. The juror would be gone the 27th, 28th, would not make sense to return for one day of that week. So, really, it would be a 10-day break in the trial. I don't think that makes sense, Mr. Pagliuca. I know I mentioned that, but I'm not sure I had that fully in mind at the time, and that's practically what we would be talking about.
MR. PAGLIUCA: I appreciate that, your Honor. Again, I frankly don't want to delay this trial. The intention here is, first, I don't know which juror this is, and that would make a difference in my analysis here, frankly.
JUDGE NATHAN: I mean, to be candid, that's why I'm not telling you, because -- I'm not telling either side because I think under the veil of ignorance is a better place for everybody to be.
MR. PAGLIUCA: Let me be more specific, your Honor. I'm not asking to know the specific juror, but what would make a large difference to me is whether this person is in the alternate pool versus the main pool of jurors. I would have less of a problem excusing the juror if the juror was in the alternate pool as opposed to the main pool. And the reason I say that is we carefully exercised peremptory challenges in this case, both to the main pool and the alternate pool. Had we understood that if this juror's plans couldn't be changed, we would have made a different choice while the entire venire was still available and we would have gone with the choice of seating the one juror, the number I don't remember off the top of my head, but the one juror who had dropped off of the alternate pool as opposed to doing something else. That would have been the choice we would have made at that point.
JUDGE NATHAN: But you actually had that option with this information available to you yesterday. The government supported that move of having seven alternates and you declined that option. So even with the information that we might face this issue, you chose not to go that route.
MR. PAGLIUCA: But, your Honor, my view, that's because we understood that the Court was not going to excuse the juror. That was my clear understanding. The transcript says whatever it says.
JUDGE NATHAN: Fair enough. It was not with a 10-day pause in the trial in mind, and I suppose the new information is the juror telling me that there is some level of distraction as a result of this concern, which was not what was indicated yesterday when the discussion was that they would make every effort to try to move it. Having apparently now made that effort, they can't move it.
MR. PAGLIUCA: I understand, your Honor. I think my position is clear and the Court will do as the Court sees fit.
JUDGE NATHAN: I don't want to do a 10-day break in the middle of the trial. That doesn't make sense. I think, really, the option is just to encourage them to take a last shot at any effort to move it, but I think we're going to end up in the same place. I'm wishing we had kept that additional juror. I think I have to excuse the juror. I'll have a discussion in which I just say one more time, is there anything else to explore regarding cancellation or moving it, and if the answer to that is no, I think I will excuse the juror. I'll step down.
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(In open court)
JUDGE NATHAN: I had an additional conversation with the juror. He was confident there was no way to move it. He said he could cancel it, they would lose money, it was a burden, he was distracted by it, so I had to excuse juror number 58. All our other jurors are here. They're just finishing up settling in. So we can proceed as soon as Ms. Williams brings them out. Anything to take up?
MS. COMEY: No, thank you, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: I think they'll be ready momentarily. So I'll sit.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, would you like the witness in the witness box?
JUDGE NATHAN: That would be great. Thank you.
(Witness present) We need about two more minutes.
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(Jury present)
JUDGE NATHAN: Thank you, members of the jury. I hope you had a pleasant evening. Thank you so much for being here ready to go on time. I greatly appreciate it. We will resume with the direct examination of Mr. Visoski. Mr. Visoski, I remind you are under oath.
LAWRENCE VISOSKI: Thank you, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Ms. Comey, you may proceed.
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. LAWRENCE VISOSKI, resumed. DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED
BY MS. COMEY: