David Rodgers — Direct
317 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. COMEY:
MS. COMEY: Good afternoon, Mr. Rodgers.
DAVID RODGERS: Good afternoon.
MS. COMEY: What kind of work do you do?
DAVID RODGERS: I'm a pilot.
MS. COMEY: I'd like to direct your attention to the period between 1991 and 2019. Who did you work for during that time?
DAVID RODGERS: Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: What was your job for Jeffrey Epstein?
DAVID RODGERS: I was chief pilot for about 13 years, and then captain and first officer and flight engineer.
MS. COMEY: About when were you first hired?
DAVID RODGERS: I was first hired in July of 1991.
MS. COMEY: Who hired you?
DAVID RODGERS: Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: Where were you hired?
DAVID RODGERS: Columbus, Ohio.
MS. COMEY: How did you come to be hired?
DAVID RODGERS: I had been flying a Hawker for a real estate developer in Columbus, Ohio for several years. And we had just sold our airplane. So the aviation manager for the limited flight department asked me if I would be interested in flying for Jeffrey Epstein, who was about to purchase the same type of airplane I'd been flying. And I told him yes. And so the next day I had an interview with Jeffrey. And he hired me and said, You can hire anybody you want to work with you.
MS. COMEY: And did you then hire someone else?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Who was that?
DAVID RODGERS: Larry Visoski.
MS. COMEY: What was his job?
DAVID RODGERS: Larry was a co-captain and director of maintenance.
MS. COMEY: And for how long did Larry work with you for Mr. Epstein?
DAVID RODGERS: For Mr. Epstein we were 28 years with Mr. Epstein alive, a little longer after that.
MS. COMEY: Ms. Drescher, would you please pull up what's in evidence as Government Exhibit 112.
MS. COMEY: Mr. Rodgers, do you recognize the person in that photograph?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, that's Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: We can take that down. Thank you, Ms. Drescher.
MS. COMEY: About how old was Jeffrey Epstein when he hired you in 1991?
DAVID RODGERS: Thirty-eight.
MS. COMEY: What were your responsibilities as chief pilot for your first 13 years of employment with Mr. Epstein?
DAVID RODGERS: As chief pilot, there are a lot of responsibilities. But probably the one that would be at the top would be safety, making sure that the airplane is always operated in a safe manner; making sure that you're following FAA regulations and rules; making sure that your pilots are retrained every year, recurrent training. And also, more importantly is following maintenance procedures for the aircraft to make sure it stays in proper operating condition. And there's a lot of other duties, too: Budgeting, scheduling. Quite a few things. But that pretty much summarizes it.
MS. COMEY: Did you also fly the planes?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, I did.
MS. COMEY: And then you switched to captain and flight engineer. What were the responsibilities of those positions?
DAVID RODGERS: As captain, you would get the weather for the flight, file the flight plan, fuel the airplane, you would reserve hotel rooms, cars, catering, stuff like that.
MS. COMEY: Between 1994 and 2004, about how often did you fly Jeffrey Epstein's private planes?
DAVID RODGERS: On average, we flew every four days.
MS. COMEY: Was there a particular set schedule?
DAVID RODGERS: No.
MS. COMEY: Was there any sort of routine or frequent stops?
DAVID RODGERS: Primarily most of the time we were going to one of his houses.
MS. COMEY: Where was that?
DAVID RODGERS: At that time it was Palm Beach, Florida; New York; Columbus, Ohio at that time. And then later on there were the ranch near Santa Fe, New Mexico, and then an island down at -- near St. Thomas.
MS. COMEY: About when do you remember starting to fly out to New Mexico?
DAVID RODGERS: That would have been 1993.
MS. COMEY: And about when do you remember starting to fly to St. Thomas?
DAVID RODGERS: Probably around 1998.
MS. COMEY: I'd like to focus again on the period between 1994 and 2004. During that period, how did you learn about an upcoming flight for one of Mr. Epstein's planes?
DAVID RODGERS: It would be one of several ways. It could be Jeffrey Epstein himself could tell us before we left the plane that we're leaving in two days or two hours or whatever we're doing. It could also be from his secretary. There were times that Ghislaine Maxwell might tell us about when the flight was.
MS. COMEY: Who was Ghislaine Maxwell?
DAVID RODGERS: She worked for Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: Based on your observations and time working with her, what were her job responsibilities?
DAVID RODGERS: She had a lot of responsibilities. She was a property manager pretty much for all of his homes that he had, an office manager. She would hire -- or she would interview prospective employees and she would hire employees. She would be -- she would do a lot of purchases for the homes, for the apartments, for the airplanes also, soft goods that you would need in those places.
MS. COMEY: Among Mr. Epstein's employees, where in the hierarchy did Ms. Maxwell fall?
DAVID RODGERS: She would be number two.
MS. COMEY: Below whom?
DAVID RODGERS: Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: About when did you first meet Ms. Maxwell?
DAVID RODGERS: July of 1991.
MS. COMEY: What did Ms. Maxwell look like when you first met her?
DAVID RODGERS: She was 29 years old, shoulder-length black hair, probably around five seven, slim build, very energetic, great personality.
MS. COMEY: What, if any, accent did she have?
DAVID RODGERS: British accent.
MS. COMEY: How, if at all, did Ms. Maxwell's hair change between when you met her in 1991 and 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: It got shorter over the years.
MS. COMEY: Would you recognize Ms. Maxwell if you saw her again today?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Looking around the courtroom, do you see her?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, I do.
MS. COMEY: Would you please point her out and identify an article of clothing she's wearing?
DAVID RODGERS: She has a maroon top on at the table.
MS. COMEY: Would the record please reflect that the witness has identified the defendant.
JUDGE NATHAN: The record shall so reflect.
MS. COMEY: Other than on one of Mr. Epstein's planes, how else would you interact with Ms. Maxwell between 1994 and 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: Early on it would be by beeper, if she needed something; and then later on we had cell phones. And, you know, occasionally I would see her at the office, and obviously on the airplane.
MS. COMEY: Other than on the airplane and at the office, did you ever see Ms. Maxwell anywhere else in person?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, I would see her at her house.
MS. COMEY: Why would you go to her house?
DAVID RODGERS: She had first aid kits that we also had maintained on our airplane; and so we provided her with those first aid kits. And so they had to be refurbished once a year. So I would go there to pick it up, and then return it after it got refurbished.
MS. COMEY: Between 1991, when you first met her, and 2004, what residences of Ms. Maxwell's did you personally visit?
DAVID RODGERS: The first one would have been on 59th Street near Columbus Circle. The second one would have been a studio apartment, not sure of the location, probably Upper East Side of Manhattan. And then she had an apartment, large apartment, on 84th Street. And then she had a townhouse on 65th Street.
MS. COMEY: I want to walk through each of those, please. When did you go to the 59th Street apartment?
DAVID RODGERS: In the fall of 1991. I don't recall exactly when.
MS. COMEY: Could you describe that residence.
DAVID RODGERS: It was a very large residence. It was, you know -- I don't recall what floor, an upper floor, but it was a very large residence, very large apartment.
MS. COMEY: Was it in Manhattan?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Where was it situated?
DAVID RODGERS: 59th Street near Columbus Circle.
MS. COMEY: And then about when, to your understanding, did she move to the studio apartment?
DAVID RODGERS: I would say that was at the end of 1991, possibly early 1992.
MS. COMEY: And were you aware from your conversations with Ms. Maxwell about something that happened in between that move?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection. Relevance.
JUDGE NATHAN: Just a moment.
MS. COMEY: Goes to motive, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, may I be heard?
JUDGE NATHAN: You may.
(Continued on next page)
(At sidebar)
JUDGE NATHAN: I don't know what the question is eliciting.
MR. EVERDELL: It seems evident to me that what the government wants to get into is the fact of Ms. Maxwell's father's death around that time. Because I think what they're going to try to do is argue that his death was somehow a motive for her because of their wealth or something connected to her father, and she had to move to a smaller apartment. Now, this is something that is outside of the scope of the conspiracy and wasn't even -- our understanding, it wasn't even her apartment on 59th; she shared a room with somebody. This is really getting totally outside the scope. It is three years before the conspiracy allegedly began and it is totally out of bounds here because they are trying to link it up to something that has no relevance to this case.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I think that what the witness will say is that -- I think the witness will say that her father died in between those two, that's all I plan to elicit. And then she moved to a much smaller apartment. She then moved to a series of larger apartments, ending in a large townhouse. There's evidence that Jeffrey Epstein bought that townhouse for her. This goes to Ms. Maxwell's motive to participate in these crimes with Mr. Epstein in terms of the finances that she received and the fact that she was not a particularly wealthy person when she first met Mr. Epstein.
MR. PAGLIUCA: There's no foundation for that either. The fact that somebody moves into a smaller apartment means that they don't have any money? I mean --
JUDGE NATHAN: Overruled.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
JUDGE NATHAN: Go ahead, Ms. Comey.
BY MS. COMEY:
MS. COMEY: Are you aware from your conversations with Ms. Maxwell about an event that took place in her life between when she was in the larger apartment and then moved to the studio apartment?
DAVID RODGERS: Her father had passed away in November, early November of 1991.
MS. COMEY: Do you know about when she moved from the studio apartment to the 84th Street apartment?
DAVID RODGERS: I don't. I would guess -- if I guessed, it would be --
MS. COMEY: I'm not asking you to guess. Can you estimate based on your best recollection?
DAVID RODGERS: I would estimate maybe one to two years.
MS. COMEY: And then do you recall approximately when she moved to the townhouse?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection. Foundation.
JUDGE NATHAN: Sustained.
MS. COMEY: Based on your conversations with Ms. Maxwell, what is your understanding of when approximately she moved to the townhouse?
MR. EVERDELL: Objection. Hearsay.
MS. COMEY: Statement of the defendant, your Honor.
MR. EVERDELL: It's not in furtherance, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Overruled.
MS. COMEY: Based on your conversations with Ms. Maxwell, what is your understanding of when she moved to the townhouse approximately?
DAVID RODGERS: In the -- probably the late '90s, possibly 2000.
MS. COMEY: Could you describe that townhouse for us please.
DAVID RODGERS: I believe it was a brown, five stories tall. It had a courtyard in the back of it. It was -- it was a pretty big place, probably, I'm guessing -- well, I'm not guessing. Approximately 6,500 square feet, maybe seven.
MS. COMEY: All of these homes you've described, in what borough were they located?
DAVID RODGERS: Manhattan.
MS. COMEY: Based on your observations of and interactions with Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein, what was your understanding of the nature of their relationship between 1991 and 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: Early on they were romantically involved. And somewhere in between that time period they weren't romantically involved.
MS. COMEY: When Ms. Maxwell was the person to let you know about an upcoming flight on one of Mr. Epstein's planes, how would she contact you to convey that information?
DAVID RODGERS: It could have been by beeper. And then after we got rid of the beepers, it would have been by cell phone.
MS. COMEY: About how far ahead of time did you typically receive notice of an upcoming flight for one of Mr. Epstein's planes?
DAVID RODGERS: It would vary. Usually 24 hours. And it could be even two or three days.
MS. COMEY: To your knowledge, did Mr. Epstein fly exclusively by private plane between 1994 and 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: Almost. But occasionally he would ride on an airline. I mean I can recall dropping him off to take the Concorde to Europe.
MS. COMEY: Were there ever times when Mr. Epstein's private plane was unavailable?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Why was that?
DAVID RODGERS: We would have to go down for maintenance every year, usually typically two to three weeks at that time.
MS. COMEY: To your knowledge, did Ms. Maxwell only fly by private plane between 1994 and 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: I'm not --
MR. EVERDELL: Objection. Foundation.
JUDGE NATHAN: Sustained.
MS. COMEY: Based on your conversations with Ms. Maxwell, do you have an understanding of whether she only flew by private plane?
DAVID RODGERS: She -- she had a travel air -- a Raytheon Travel Air card that allowed her to use like a charter type of private jet.
MS. COMEY: When you were piloting a flight for Mr. Epstein, typically, what interactions would you have with the passengers?
DAVID RODGERS: When they would get on, you know, you would speak to them -- or you might speak to them, you say hi. But that would be just about it.
MS. COMEY: Between 1991 and 2004, what aircrafts did Jeffrey Epstein own?
DAVID RODGERS: From '91, the first one was a Hawker Siddeley 125 aircraft. The next aircraft was a Gulfstream G2B. After that we had a smaller aircraft, a twin engine, light twin Cessna 421. Then we purchased the Boeing 727.
MS. COMEY: Is that it for that period, '91 to 2004?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, that's it for that period.
MS. COMEY: On the Gulfstream G2B, what, if any, divider was there between the pilot and the passengers?
DAVID RODGERS: As you walked up the airstairs and made a right to go back to the passenger cabin, you passed through a door that contained a passenger cabin. So that door was always closed from the cockpit or from the flight deck.
MS. COMEY: But during the flights that you piloted on that plane, were you able to observe what the passengers were doing?
MS. COMEY: And how about on the Boeing, what divider, if any, was there between the pilots and the passengers during flight?
DAVID RODGERS: We had two there. As you walked up the airstairs, if you looked left to the flight deck, the door was closed -- there was a door there that was always closed. And then as you made a right to go back to the forward lounge area, there was another door that you would pass through. So there were literally two doors on that one.
MS. COMEY: Were you able to observe what the passengers were doing on the Boeing during the flights you piloted?
MS. COMEY: During your time working as a pilot for Mr. Epstein, what, if any, records did you keep about the flights that you piloted?
DAVID RODGERS: We kept a passenger manifest which we filled out after every flight. And then at the end of the day, we had an aircraft log that we put down flight times that we flew on that particular day. And then I also kept a personal logbook.
MS. COMEY: Walking through each of those, starting with the flight log for the plane, what information went into that log?
DAVID RODGERS: Okay. On the passenger manifest you'd have the date, you would have the trip number, you would have the departure, the destination. We had who the passengers were on there, the flight time, I think we also had the amount of fuel we would purchase on there. And then on the aircraft log, it was really for maintenance procedures. It had about engine times, aircraft landings, APU times, stuff like that.
MS. COMEY: What happened to the passenger manifests that you filled out for Jeffrey Epstein's planes?
DAVID RODGERS: Those -- I had those and turned those over to an attorney of Jeffrey's.
MS. COMEY: One of Jeffrey Epstein's attorneys?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Did you keep a copy?
MS. COMEY: Now, you also mentioned a set of records that you kept separately. What was that?
DAVID RODGERS: My logbook.
MS. COMEY: What's a logbook?
DAVID RODGERS: It just shows you the day you flew, the destination you went to, the flight time that you flew on that.
MS. COMEY: What other information about each flight you piloted did you keep in your logbook?
DAVID RODGERS: I kept passenger names also.
MS. COMEY: Now, did that logbook include every flight that each of Mr. Epstein's planes took or only the flights where you were a crew member?
DAVID RODGERS: It was only the flights that I was a crew member.
MS. COMEY: Over the course of your employment for Mr. Epstein, how often were you away from work?
DAVID RODGERS: On average, about five weeks a year, between vacation and training.
MS. COMEY: I'd now like to ask you to please pull out the binder in front of you and take a look at what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 662.
DAVID RODGERS: Okay. I have it.
MS. COMEY: Do you recognize that?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: What is it?
DAVID RODGERS: That's a copy of my logbook.
MS. COMEY: Did you review this before coming to testify here today to make sure that this exhibit is an accurate copy of your logbook?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, I did.
MS. COMEY: Was each entry in this logbook made at or near the time of the flight reflected in each row?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, it would have been made at the time that flight was over, probably within 30 minutes of the passengers leaving.
MS. COMEY: Did you keep these records in the course of your regularly conducted activity as a pilot?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: And was maintaining this logbook a regular practice of that activity?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government offers Exhibit 662 under seal; and a redacted version, 662-R, for the public. The sealing is for witness and third-party reasons.
MR. EVERDELL: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. 662 is admitted under seal for the reasons indicated. 662-R is admitted, which is a redacted version. (Government's Exhibits 662, 662-R received in evidence)
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. Ms. Drescher, I'll ask you to please pull up page 1 of 662-R. And, your Honor, I would ask that at the same time the jurors be permitted to turn in their binders to the first page of 622.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. Jurors, you may -- is it the small binder or the large binder?
MS. COMEY: Large binder.
JUDGE NATHAN: Large binder. GX-662, please.
MS. COMEY: Before we get to 662, Mr. Rodgers, would you please also look at Government Exhibit 661.
JUDGE NATHAN: But not the jurors yet, please. Just 662 for the jurors.
MS. COMEY: Withdrawn. 662 is the right exhibit.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. So we are staying on 662?
MS. COMEY: We are staying on 662, your Honor.
DAVID RODGERS: I'm at 661.
BY MS. COMEY:
MS. COMEY: Would you go to 662 for me, Mr. Rodgers. I apologize for that.
DAVID RODGERS: All right. I'm there.
MS. COMEY: Could you please walk us through the columns in this logbook, starting with the far left-hand column that says "date."
DAVID RODGERS: Okay. So the first column says "date." The second column says --
MS. COMEY: Before you move on, what information did you put for each row under the "date" heading?
DAVID RODGERS: I would have the year next to where you see 19. Under that, I would have the month. And if the month changed, if you look further down, I would write the new month. And then the day of the month, which is one number.
MS. COMEY: And could you walk us through the next two column headings, please.
DAVID RODGERS: Okay. The next one is the aircraft make and model. And the next one is the aircraft identification mark, which is the registration number for the aircraft.
MS. COMEY: And do those just tell you what plane you were on?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, that would tell us what -- which airplane we were on.
MS. COMEY: And then how about the next two columns, what information was contained in those?
DAVID RODGERS: These are the points of departure and arrival. So this is where we're leaving from and where we're going to.
MS. COMEY: And then what is the next column?
DAVID RODGERS: The next column has miles flown. And on this particular one it says "duty time." That pretty much can be ignored. It's not relevant to what we're doing. But the next one is -- which is our flight number.
MS. COMEY: What's a flight number?
DAVID RODGERS: That's -- like number one is the very first flight that we took for Jeffrey Epstein.
MS. COMEY: And is that for a particular aircraft?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes. This one would be for the Hawker HS125.
MS. COMEY: And then the next column, "remarks, procedures, maneuvers, endorsements," what did you put in that column?
DAVID RODGERS: I put in that column passenger names.
MS. COMEY: And then the remaining columns on this page, can you just generally tell us what those are.
DAVID RODGERS: Yeah. One of them, it says number of landings; how many landings you did that day. And then the aircraft categories, whether you were flying a single engine or whatever you might be flying. And then there are totals down at the bottom of the page.
MS. COMEY: I want to walk through a couple entries on this page, please. Let's go to the row that has flight number one down at the bottom; four from the bottom, I believe.
DAVID RODGERS: Okay.
MS. COMEY: That row, can you walk us through the date of this flight.
DAVID RODGERS: Yes. This is July 26, 1991.
MS. COMEY: And you're getting July from what part of this page?
DAVID RODGERS: If you look up one, two, three, four, five rows up, you'll see J-U-L there.
MS. COMEY: And you're getting 1991 from what part of this page?
DAVID RODGERS: From the very top of this page.
MS. COMEY: Going back to flight one, can you tell us what aircraft you were on, going to the next two columns?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes. This is the HS125-700. And at the time the registration number was N404CB.
MS. COMEY: Now, in this row there are just two marks.
DAVID RODGERS: Yes. That's just a copy -- it's a ditto of what's above it. And what's above it, you'll see where it turns into HS125-700 and N404CB.
MS. COMEY: Now, let's go to the "from" and "to" columns. Can you walk us through those, please, for flight number one?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, flight number one, we departed Wilmington, Delaware. And our destination was Teterboro, New Jersey.
MS. COMEY: So what does "TEB" stand for?
DAVID RODGERS: Teterboro, New Jersey.
MS. COMEY: How far is Teterboro, New Jersey from Manhattan?
DAVID RODGERS: It's about 16 miles.
MS. COMEY: And when you flew into Teterboro, New Jersey, what was your understanding of where Jeffrey Epstein was staying?
DAVID RODGERS: When we first started working for him, he lived in an apartment in Manhattan.
MS. COMEY: And now let's move over to the remarks procedures, maneuvers, and endorsements part of this row. Can you tell us what this means.
DAVID RODGERS: Yes. Like, for instance, on flight number one, I think it just says repositioning to Teterboro after closing on the airplane. This is the first flight that we actually own that aircraft.
MS. COMEY: Let's go down, please, to flight number two. Can you walk us through the date of this flight where you're flying from and where you're flying to?
DAVID RODGERS: It's July 26, 1991. We're flying from Teterboro, New Jersey to Palm Beach, Florida.
MS. COMEY: What does "PBI" stand for?
DAVID RODGERS: Palm Beach International.
MS. COMEY: When you were flying to Palm Beach International Airport for Jeffrey Epstein, what was your understanding of where he was staying?
DAVID RODGERS: He had a home located on Palm Beach Island.
MS. COMEY: And then let's go to the passenger column. Was Jeffrey Epstein a passenger on this flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: And was Ghislaine Maxwell a passenger on this flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: And were there two other passengers as well?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Stepping back for a second from these records, we'll turn right back to them in a moment, how did you learn the names of the passengers on each flight you piloted?
DAVID RODGERS: It would vary. Sometimes we would be told if the secretary said, You're leaving two days from now and these are your passengers. That didn't always happen, as far as knowing who the passengers were. So sometimes we might get introduced to the passenger by Jeffrey once they got onboard.
MS. COMEY: Did you always know the name of every passenger onboard?
MS. COMEY: Why not?
DAVID RODGERS: Nobody told us who they were.
MS. COMEY: If there was a passenger onboard and you didn't know that person's name, how did you indicate the presence of that person in your logbook?
DAVID RODGERS: With the industry standard of "PAX," which is abbreviation for passenger. And then later on we further change it from that to either -- the gender, either male or female.
MS. COMEY: I want to go now actually backing up. So is the first time a person's name appears in this logbook necessarily the first time that person was a passenger on one of Mr. Epstein's planes?
DAVID RODGERS: It might not be, because they could have been a PAX on the previous flight because we didn't know their name, and then maybe the next flight we find out who they are.
MS. COMEY: So you wouldn't go back and add in their name?
MS. COMEY: I'd like to turn now, please, to page 29 of Government Exhibit 662. And there are numbers on the bottom.
DAVID RODGERS: Okay.
MS. COMEY: I want to look at flight number 573, please. Can you please tell us the date of this flight, where you're flying from, and where you're flying to.
DAVID RODGERS: This is August the 18th, 1994. And we're traveling from -- departing Aspen, Colorado to Traverse City, Michigan.
MS. COMEY: What plane were you on?
DAVID RODGERS: This is the Gulfstream 2B. And the way you tell that is looking -- just go to the upper part of the column there and you'll see G1159B, which is the technical name, but it's primarily known as a G2B.
MS. COMEY: And for the date here, how do you know that this is August 18th, 1994?
DAVID RODGERS: Because in the first column it says 18. And if we move up through probably six or seven rows, you'll see August, A-U-G. And if we move to the very top of the page, you'll see 1994.
MS. COMEY: What does "TVC" stand for?
DAVID RODGERS: Traverse City, Michigan.
MS. COMEY: About how many times do you remember flying Jeffrey Epstein to Traverse City, Michigan during your time as a pilot for him?
DAVID RODGERS: I was -- flew there seven times between 1991 and 1998. The year that we didn't go, I think, was 1995.
MS. COMEY: During about what time of year do you remember all of those flights being?
DAVID RODGERS: They were all August, with one exception. We arrived one time on the 31st of July. But they were typically within the first couple of weeks of August.
MS. COMEY: And when you were at Traverse City, Michigan, do you remember ever going anywhere in particular?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes, went to the Interlochen Center for the Arts.
MS. COMEY: I want to go back to flight number 573. Is Jeffrey Epstein a passenger on that flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: And were there two other passengers as well on that flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Let's go now to the very next flight, flight 574. What was the date of that flight?
DAVID RODGERS: This is July the 20th, 1994.
MS. COMEY: I'm sorry, you said July the 20th?
DAVID RODGERS: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. August the 20th. My mistake.
MS. COMEY: Of what year?
DAVID RODGERS: Of 1994.
MS. COMEY: Where are you flying from and where are you flying to?
DAVID RODGERS: From Traverse City, Michigan to Teterboro, New Jersey.
MS. COMEY: Was Jeffrey Epstein a passenger on this flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: And was Ghislaine Maxwell a passenger on this flight?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Was there also a third passenger?
DAVID RODGERS: Yes.
MS. COMEY: Just to be clear, how do you know that Jeffrey Epstein was a passenger on this flight? What in the logbook tells you that?
DAVID RODGERS: I have his initials in there, "JE."
MS. COMEY: And how about for Ghislaine Maxwell, what in the logbook tells us that?
DAVID RODGERS: I have her initials, "GM."
MS. COMEY: I'd like to --