Daniel Alan Besselsen — Direct/Cross
258 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ROHRBACH:
MR. ROHRBACH: Good afternoon, Mr. Besselsen.
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Good afternoon.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, where do you work?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I work at Interlochen Center for the Arts.
MR. ROHRBACH: What is Interlochen Center for the Arts?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Interlochen is a nonprofit organization focused on arts education. We have our two largest programs, a arts camp in the summer, and a boarding high school during September through May. And we're focused on arts education, as I mentioned. So we have visual arts, music, creative writing, dance, theater, creative writing types of programming.
MR. ROHRBACH: Where is Interlochen located?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: We're located in Interlochen, Michigan.
MR. ROHRBACH: Where is Interlochen, Michigan?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: It's northern Michigan; it's about 20 minutes southwest of Traverse City, Michigan, which is the largest town in northern Michigan.
MR. ROHRBACH: How long have you worked there?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I've worked there 16 years.
MR. ROHRBACH: What's your title?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: My title is assistant vice president of finance.
MR. ROHRBACH: And what are your responsibilities as an assistant vice president of finance?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I oversee the finance department, including accounts payable, accounts receivable, our purchasing, payroll. I'm involved in overseeing director of campus safety and security, as well as the director of dining services. And I'm involved with the auditors, the banks, the investment companies, as well as external audits.
MR. ROHRBACH: And in that capacity, are you familiar with the normal business practices of Interlochen?
MR. ROHRBACH: In particular, are you familiar with the business practices regarding communications with donors?
MR. ROHRBACH: Does Interlochen maintain records of its communications with donors?
MR. ROHRBACH: What sorts of records?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: For our major donors or prospects, we keep all correspondence with donors, whether it might be a letter, email correspondence, records of phone conversations, notes from visits with donors, things like that.
MR. ROHRBACH: Let's talk about letters in particular. How are letters that are written to donors created?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: The letters are created by an individual in our advancement department who's charged with managing that particular donor relationship. And so they would be the ones that would write a letter to a donor or to a foundation.
MR. ROHRBACH: Is there any relationship between the level of donation given and the person writing the letter to the donor?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes. Yup. For example, our vice president of advancement or even our president would handle a higher-end donor that might be capable of donating half a million dollars or more, for example. And we would have major gift officers that would be below that vice president of advancement that would handle folks with capacity to give $100,000, $200,000, something like that.
MR. ROHRBACH: When these letters are written to donors, does Interlochen put them in any sort of file?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes, yup. We keep track of all correspondence with donors. Nowadays, it's all electronic within Salesforce, which is the software we use to track fundraising and donations. Historically, we have hard copy letters, for example. Prior to using Salesforce, we've got manila folders or files that we kept for each donor that includes all of the correspondence over time with that donor.
MR. ROHRBACH: How long are those records kept?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: They are kept forever.
MR. ROHRBACH: And are they kept by Interlochen in the ordinary course of business?
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, would you please display for the witness, Court, and counsel what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 741.
MR. ROHRBACH: Do you recognize this, Mr. Besselsen?
MR. ROHRBACH: What is it?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is a letter from Interlochen's vice president of advancement to Mr. Epstein providing some information to him on the concept of building a scholarship lodge on Interlochen's campus and the level of donation that would be required to build a lodge.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, will you pick up the binder next to you. It has another copy of Government Exhibit 741. Have you reviewed this exhibit before today?
MR. ROHRBACH: And what is this exhibit?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This exhibit are all of the letters or a portion of the letters that were included in Mr. Epstein's file that we've stored away in the filing cabinet in the basement of the McWhorter dorm locked away.
MR. ROHRBACH: How do you know these letters come from the Epstein file at Interlochen?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I myself went in and pulled it recently and saw these.
MR. ROHRBACH: Thank you.
MR. ROHRBACH: The government offers Government Exhibit 741.
JUDGE NATHAN: 741 is how many pages?
MR. ROHRBACH: It is -- I believe it's eight pages, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay.
MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, it's eight pages.
MS. STERNHEIM: May I confer with the government for a moment?
JUDGE NATHAN: You may.
(Counsel conferred)
MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE NATHAN: So it's eight pages.
MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. Without objection, GX-741 is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 741 received in evidence)
BY MR. ROHRBACH:
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, are you familiar with Interlochen's business practices regarding student records?
MR. ROHRBACH: Does Interlochen keep a file on each student?
MR. ROHRBACH: And how is that file maintained?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: The file is maintained in a locked room in the lower level of the Maddy Administration Building. Once again, it's manila files or folders for each student, and includes information from the student, on a student.
MR. ROHRBACH: And what sort of information is contained in student records, in student files?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: So the files include comments from faculty that were involved with that student's time on a camp -- academy programming or camp programming, as well as cabin life, comments from the counsellors during the camp programming, as well as applications, paper applications, if you go back in time, if we're talking about a camper or academy student.
MR. ROHRBACH: And are those records regularly put into the student file?
MR. ROHRBACH: And does Interlochen regularly maintain those records?
MR. ROHRBACH: How long are student records kept?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Records are kept for 99 years per Interlochen's record retention policy.
MR. ROHRBACH: In your binder, would you turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 743. Without saying any names, do you recognize this?
MR. ROHRBACH: What is it?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is an application for admission to our summer camp in 1994.
MR. ROHRBACH: Did you review this prior to today?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I did.
MR. ROHRBACH: And turning to page 3 of that exhibit, is that photo part of the application?
MR. ROHRBACH: How do you know?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Once again, this is something that I went in and tracked down and pulled this particular camper's file myself. And this was -- and these documents were in it, and this was attached to this particular application.
MR. ROHRBACH: The government offers Government Exhibit 743 under seal.
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: GX-743 is admitted under seal, consistent with my ruling allowing the individual listed to testify under a pseudonym.
(Government's Exhibit 743 received in evidence)
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, does Interlochen keep records that a student completes a program?
MR. ROHRBACH: Who makes those records?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Those records would be made or input by our admissions office.
MR. ROHRBACH: And how are those records maintained?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: When a student is accepted and enrolls in a program, that is when those records are created in our software.
MR. ROHRBACH: And to be clear, are those records kept in the ordinary course of business?
MR. ROHRBACH: In your binder, would you turn to what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 744. Do you recognize this?
MR. ROHRBACH: Without saying any names, what is it?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is a report out of Salesforce, which is our software that we use not only for fundraising, but also for student records, that I generated. And it's a report on education records, specifically pulling the completion year, first name, last name, and education type, with a filter on the last name.
MR. ROHRBACH: And just so the record is clear, you personally generated this spreadsheet?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I did, yes.
MR. ROHRBACH: The government offers Government Exhibit 744 under seal.
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: GX-744 is admitted under seal consistent with my ruling allowing the individual listed to testify under a pseudonym.
(Government's Exhibit 744 received in evidence)
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, I'd like to walk briefly through some of the exhibits we were just looking at.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, would you please publish Government Exhibit 741 for the Court, counsel, the witness, and the jury.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, what is this document?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is a letter from Interlochen's vice president of advancement to Mr. Epstein providing him with additional information on the scholarship lodge, building a scholarship lodge on Interlochen's campus, and what it would take to -- in regards to donating for that project.
MR. ROHRBACH: You mentioned a scholarship lodge. What is a scholarship lodge?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: A scholarship lodge is a rental lodge, a small home on our campus where parents of campers or academy students can come stay on campus, be close to the performance venues and things like that. So parents or guests of Interlochen or even the general public who come stay in this rental lodge and pay a -- like a fee, like a hotel room to stay in.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, would you turn to page 2 of this document.
MR. ROHRBACH: What is this document? What are we looking at, Mr. Besselsen?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is a letter, again, from Interlochen's vice president of advancement to Mr. Epstein thanking him for his donation of $200,000 for a new scholarship lodge on our campus, and the different updates provided in the letter about construction timelines and things like that.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, what is the date of this letter?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: February 9, 1994.
MR. ROHRBACH: And turning now to the next page, Ms. Drescher.
MR. ROHRBACH: Who is this letter from, Mr. Besselsen?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: The letter is from Tim Ambrose, vice president of advancement.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, turn to page 5 of this document.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, what is this document?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is a letter from Interlochen's vice president of advancement to Ms. Maxwell enclosing an envelope that was found when Interlochen's custodial staff was cleaning the Epstein scholarship lodge, returning the lost envelope to Ms. Maxwell, as well as the next page of this provides a listing of items.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, we'll get to the next page in a moment, but would you read this letter for us?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes. Dear Ghislaine, enclosed is the envelope we recently found in cleaning the Epstein Lodge. Apparently it lodged between the wall and the dresser. It was not discovered until the unit was moved for cleaning. As we discussed, the final week of camp is August 14 through the 20th. I've reserved the lodge for Jeffrey's use. In addition, he has one more week that he can reserve for himself or guests. He may wish to have use it. Attached is a list of the dry goods that are in storage as part of Jeffrey's personal inventory. Please advise if we are missing any items you are aware of being sent here. Please convey to Jeffrey how pleased we are to have such a facility on our campus. In fact, the president-elect will be staying in the lodge until his family's furniture arrives. It is a remarkable place. We are grateful. Best wishes for a wonderful holiday season.
MR. ROHRBACH: Thank you, Mr. Besselsen.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, will you turn to the next page.
MR. ROHRBACH: A moment ago you mentioned an attached list. Is this the attached list?
MR. ROHRBACH: And what sorts of items are on this list, Mr. Besselsen?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Different types of linens, pillows, blankets, towels, sheets, shams.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, while you've been at Interlochen have you been familiar with the Epstein Scholarship Lodge?
MR. ROHRBACH: Does it have any other names?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes, it does.
MR. ROHRBACH: What are the names?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: The name is Green Lake Lodge.
MR. ROHRBACH: And what is this lodge, the Green Lake Lodge?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: It's a two-bedroom home, formerly known as the Jeffrey Epstein Scholarship Lodge.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, would you display for the witness, the Court, and counsel what's been marked for identification as Government Exhibit 745.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, what is this?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is the Green Lake Lodge, formerly known as the Jeffrey E. Epstein Scholarship Lodge.
MR. ROHRBACH: Is this a fair and accurate photo of the lodge?
MR. ROHRBACH: The government offers 745.
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: GX-745 is admitted.
(Government's Exhibit 745 received in evidence)
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, will you publish this, with the Court's permission.
JUDGE NATHAN: You may.
MR. ROHRBACH: Ms. Drescher, you can take it down. I'd now like to turn to Government Exhibit 744, which I believe is in the heavier of the juror binders. So if I could ask the Court to permit the jury to take out the binder?
JUDGE NATHAN: It's already admitted?
MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. Without objection, Ms. Sternheim?
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: And you said 744?
MR. ROHRBACH: 744.
JUDGE NATHAN: You may look at in the large binder, GX-744, please.
BY MR. ROHRBACH:
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, you testified earlier that you generated this record from Interlochen's database?
MR. ROHRBACH: How did you do that?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I logged into Salesforce and went to the reports section in Salesforce and modified the filters. This is a report that -- the title of the report is MJS Report. Went to that report and created these filters that you see at the top, the last name.
MR. ROHRBACH: Just to be clear, without saying the last name, is that the filter you ran to generate this report?
MR. ROHRBACH: Thank you, Mr. Besselsen. What does this report show about people with this last name's attendance at Interlochen?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: It shows which -- which years that they came to either the arts camp, which is the education type, the far right column. And that would be the summer then, if it relates to arts camp. So the summer of '94, '95, and '96. And then the arts academy would be -- the completion would be the May of that year, so May of 1999 and May of 2000.
MR. ROHRBACH: With the Court's permission, I'd like to turn the jury's attention to Government Exhibit 743, which is also in evidence.
JUDGE NATHAN: Ms. Sternheim?
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: The jury may turn to 743 in the same binder.
MR. ROHRBACH: So, Mr. Besselsen, again, without saying any names or other information, I would just ask you to take note of the address in the third section on the first page. Do you see this address?
MR. ROHRBACH: All right.
MR. ROHRBACH: Then with the Court's permission, I'd ask the jury to turn to Defense Exhibit J-4 in the defense binder which is in evidence. And Mr. Besselsen, that is in the binder next to you.
JUDGE NATHAN: Ms. Sternheim, without objection?
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection to whatever is admitted.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. And that's -- the jury is looking at J-4; correct?
MR. ROHRBACH: Yes, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: In the smaller binder. J-4 in the smaller binder.
BY MR. ROHRBACH:
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, do you note the address on page 1 of that document?
MR. ROHRBACH: Is it the same address as the address on the prior document?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes, it is.
MR. ROHRBACH: And just to be clear, what is the document we're looking at right now?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is an application for admission to our summer arts camp, which would be the summer of 1995.
MR. ROHRBACH: And the document we just looked at, Government Exhibit 743, what is that document? Again, without saying any names.
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: That's an application for admission to our arts camp, summer of 1994, previous summer.
MR. ROHRBACH: And then, Mr. Besselsen, and with the Court's permission, the jury, I would ask you to turn to Defense Exhibit J-5, which is also in evidence.
JUDGE NATHAN: Ms. Sternheim.
MS. STERNHEIM: No objection.
JUDGE NATHAN: You may turn to J-5 in the same small binder, please.
MR. ROHRBACH: Mr. Besselsen, do you recognize this document?
MR. ROHRBACH: What is it, without saying any names?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: This is an application for admission to our arts camp in the summer of 1996.
MR. ROHRBACH: Do you see the -- without saying any identifying information, do you see the address in the third section of this document?
MR. ROHRBACH: Is that the same address or a different address than the other address that you're looking at?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I believe it's a different address.
MR. ROHRBACH: Just to be clear, you think it's a different address?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes, it's a different address.
MR. ROHRBACH: Thank you.
MR. ROHRBACH: No further questions, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Sternheim?
MS. STERNHEIM: May I have a moment please?
JUDGE NATHAN: You may.
(Counsel conferred)
MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE NATHAN: Do you anticipate more than five minutes?
MS. STERNHEIM: Maybe less.
JUDGE NATHAN: Go ahead.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. STERNHEIM:
MS. STERNHEIM: Mr. Besselsen, just a few questions for you.
MS. STERNHEIM: With regard to the --
JUDGE NATHAN: Take off your mask.
MS. STERNHEIM: Thank you.
MS. STERNHEIM: With regard to the applications that have been put in evidence, did you produce to the government who paid for that student?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I did not provide that to the government; so no, I'm not aware that we did provide that.
MS. STERNHEIM: Because you do not have those records; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I believe that's correct, going back that far.
MS. STERNHEIM: And you don't have records for the siblings of that individual either; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I believe so.
MS. STERNHEIM: And that would be for the years of attendance of those three siblings, 1994, 1995, and 1996; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Correct.
MS. STERNHEIM: Now, with regard to Mr. Epstein's invitation to come to the lodge, it was for the end of August; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I believe the letter mentioned from Interlochen's vice president of advancement that we were having the final concert for our arts camp, I think it was August 7 or the week of August 7, I believe.
MS. STERNHEIM: And is it fair to say that in Interlochen, which some people call band camp, that the end is like the equivalent of color war for athletic camps?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I'm sorry, I don't have any experience with color war.
MS. STERNHEIM: Okay.
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: I don't know what that term means.
MS. STERNHEIM: It's when the performances are; it's the culmination of the summer experience. Correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: That's true, yeah.
MS. STERNHEIM: And it is then that performances are going on as opposed to classes going on; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: The final day there are performances. I'm not sure if the entire week is like that or not, but --
MS. STERNHEIM: But nonetheless, the donors, especially the major donors, come for the performances; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Yes. Some major donors do come to campus for performances.
MS. STERNHEIM: And Mr. Epstein certainly was a major donor; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Correct.
MS. STERNHEIM: And the invitation for him to have the lodge was for the period of time which is the culmination of the summer program; correct?
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: That would be correct, I would imagine, yes.
MS. STERNHEIM: May I have one moment, Judge?
JUDGE NATHAN: Okay.
(Counsel conferred)
MS. STERNHEIM: You're finished. Thank you.
DANIEL ALAN BESSELSEN: Oh, thank you.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. Mr. Rohrbach?
MR. ROHRBACH: No redirect. Thank you.
JUDGE NATHAN: All right. Mr. Besselsen, you may step down. You are excused.
(Witness excused)
JUDGE NATHAN: And that gets us at 5:02, jury. I apologize for keeping you a little bit late. I will remind you of all of my instructions, of course. Please keep them in mind. Same schedule for tomorrow. Thank you for your continued attention and diligence. Have a great night. See you tomorrow morning.
(Jury not present)
JUDGE NATHAN: You may be seated. Matters to take up, Mr. Rohrbach?
MR. ROHRBACH: Nothing from the government, your Honor.
JUDGE NATHAN: Ms. Sternheim?